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Malka Pattison: ...seminar.

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We normally focus on domestic issues but today,
we have a Fish and Wildlife Law Enforcement

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official, Mike MacLeod, who is going to tell
us about law enforcement and how we help the

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Philippines do it and the benefits of doing
that.

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Please join me in welcoming Mike MacLeod.

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[applause]

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Mike MacLeod: Thank you, Malka.

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As you can see from the title of my presentation,
"Supporting Environmental Law Enforcement

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in the Philippines," is a very broad topic,
much more broad than I could hope to ever

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accomplish in this short presentation.

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I'll be getting into some very specific projects
that are part of a larger effort by the Department

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of Interior with our partners in the Philippines.

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There were a number of partners that were
involved in the particular project that I've

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been working on.

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A number of Philippines' organizations, government
entities, USAID, INL, and some other organizations

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that I'll talk about today, were also part
of this very broad effort.

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This project with the Philippines was initiated
through the Department of Interior's ITAP

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program, International Technical Assistance
Program.

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ITAP is part of International Affairs.

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They support and coordinate DOI's projects
and missions, as they relate to foreign countries

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that are our partners in terms of dealing
with environmental issues.

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They collaborate with foreign countries.

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They've worked with over 60 countries at pushing
through a number of different efforts to help

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those countries realize a number of successes
with their own environmental efforts.

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One of the things that ITAP, an advantage
that they have, is that they can draw on the

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resources of all of Interior.

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If we want to offer technical assistance to
the partner country, we have the vast number

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of people in all the different bureaus and
DOI to draw from, expertise to draw from,

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and be able to work government to government.

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That's how I got involved.

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I work for the US Fish and Wildlife Service,
Office of Law Enforcement.

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The Office of Law Enforcement's mission, as
probably most of you know, is to protect wildlife

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and plant resources through effective enforcement
of federal laws.

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We focus our work on breaking up international
and domestic wildlife trafficking rings that

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seek to exploit protected animals and plants
around the world.

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Law enforcement, with respect to fish and
wildlife and counter wildlife trafficking,

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is a worldwide effort.

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It's not restricted just to here in the United
States.

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We have a number of foreign partners that
we work with to accomplish our mission.

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We do this in OLE with about 250 special agents,
140 wildlife inspectors.

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We have an internationally recognized forensics
lab in Ashland, Oregon and a wide range of

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individuals who support those efforts.

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That's where I come in.

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I'm actually an information technology specialist.

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That is my role within OLE.

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I've been with the organization for almost
20 years right now.

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My primary job, when I first started, was
to design and develop a program that we have

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named LEMIS, Law Enforcement Management Information
System.

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It's a system that we utilize within our organization.

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It's homegrown.

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We built it ourselves.

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As I like to say when I do trainings for our
inspectors and agents that the good, the bad,

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and the ugly, it's all there.

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You can blame me for all of it.

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That was my role in our organization was to
build that system.

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I'm located in western Colorado actually.

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That photo is not from the Philippines, but
I will have some Philippines photos.

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A little bit about our Law Enforcement Management
Information System, because it comes into

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play in terms of specifically what I'll talk
about today with the Philippines.

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It's comprised of a suite of applications.

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Again, we built it ourselves.

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It's very much customized for the type of
work we do.

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That includes all of our investigative work
in the Office of Law Enforcement.

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We also bring in with our partners in the
Refuge Law Enforcement Group, all of their

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incidents are tracked in there as well.

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Import/export of wildlife is all handled through
our declaration system.

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Basically when you fill out a form, 3-177,
to import or export wildlife in and out of

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the United States, it goes through our LEMIS
Declaration System.

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About 90 percent of those go through a program
that we named eDecs, which is an online declaration

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system.

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About 200,000 roughly declarations per year
that go through there.

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We also within our system we manage import/export
licensing.

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The system has several components in it to
deal with evidence tracking.

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All the specific aspects that you would expect
with a law enforcement case.

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Including some of or targeting efforts with
partner agencies like Customs and IOC.

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Let's talk a little bit about the Philippines,
what that has to do with the Philippines,

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and why we're here today.

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Now that you can see I'm an information technology
person, you can guess we're going to talk

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a little bit about programming and databases
today.

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Don't run for the exits.

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[laughs] I'll try to make that really interesting.

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Let's talk a little bit about the Philippines,
because I'm sure everyone is of somewhat familiar

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with the country.

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I want to drill in a little bit about why
we're there, why we participated in this project,

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and what we're hoping to accomplish.

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A key island nation in Southeast Asia, a few
statistics about the Philippines.

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Sovereign country, it's actually comprised
of over 7,600 islands.

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Those are all categorized in three broad of
regions.

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The northern Luzon islands, Visayas middle
islands, and Mindanao in the southern part

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of the country.

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Mindanao has been in the news a great deal
of late.

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A number of issues going on there, so you
perhaps have seen in current events the Philippines

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recently.

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It's bounded by the South China Sea, so it's
in a very interesting, controversial, and

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strategic place within that part of the world.

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Then it also shares maritime borders with
Vietnam, Palau, Malaysia, and Indonesia.

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A few more statistics about the Philippines,
300,000 square kilometers.

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They have a population of slightly over 100
million.

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That makes it, as you can see, the 8th most
populated country in Asia, but 12th most populated

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country in the entire world.

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Pretty significant when you think about how
small it is.

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That level of population in the country certainly
has a profound impact on the environmental

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resources there, which they're endowed with
many.

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They have abundant resources within the country
and fantastic biodiversity.

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Their motto, which I thought was awesome,
and I really hoped to pull this thread throughout

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this effort of this project with them, "For
God, People, Nature and Country."

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A little bit about their history, and although
it dates back as far as about 65,000 years,

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I decided to just focus here on about the
last five centuries.

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It's a country that's been profoundly impacted
by colonialism, starting with Magellan arriving

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in 1521.

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The country was actually named in honor of
Philip II of Spain a couple decades after

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that.

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It was part of the Spanish Empire for well
over 300 years.

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As a result of that, Roman Catholicism is
a dominant religion there.

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The vast majority of the population claims
that as their religion.

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In the late 19th century, Philippines revolutionaries
declared independence from Spain.

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Interestingly enough, around the same time
Spain had ceded the islands to the United

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States as part of the Treaty of Paris in 1898.

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Shortly thereafter -- again probably pulling
into a little bit of our history books that

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most of us probably are familiar with -- in
that we had a military force that was in the

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Philippines at the end of the 19th century,
first part of the 20th.

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The country stayed under basically, with the
exception of the occupation by Japan in World

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War II, sovereignty of the country was retained
by the US until shortly after World War II.

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At which point, they had their own.

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Let's drill down a little bit into terms of
how the Philippines is organized.

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Three island groups, as I mentioned earlier.

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That's broken into regions, 18 total, 81 provinces,
145 cities, almost 1,500 municipalities.

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Over 42,000 referred to as barangays, a word
that actually pre-dated the Spanish occupation.

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The best analogy I can think is barrios, neighborhoods.

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It's a very important component in terms of
how the population is laid out in the Philippines

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is in their barangays.

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They can be intercity neighborhoods to very
remote villages.

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The barangays can be very powerful entities
in some of the locations, which makes working

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in the country very interesting.

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I mentioned abundant resources.

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I'm from Fish and Wildlife, so let's talk
about abundant wildlife.

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A few statistics here, one of the most mega-diverse
countries with respect to biodiversity in

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the world.

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Some numbers, 1,100 vertebrate species, several
large reptiles, pythons, cobras, some of the

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biggest monitor lizards I've ever seen, saltwater
crocodiles.

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The Philippine national bird is the Philippine
eagle.

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The country is covered with, obviously, many
square kilometers of maritime waters.

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It's an important part of the Coral Triangle,
with over 500 coral species, over 2,000 species

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of fish, thousands of plant species.

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It's a rainforest throughout the country,
which is of profound significance as we get

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into environmental law enforcement there,
because deforestation, exploitation of their

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forest resources has been quite profound in
the country.

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The government branches within the Philippines
are structured very much like our own, with

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an executive, legislative, and judicial branches.

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My second bullet there lines out most of the
Philippine government agencies that deal with

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environmental law enforcement.

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Much like our own country, it's spread across
a number of bureaus.

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The one with the primary responsibility is
what they call the Department of Environment

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and Natural Resources.

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It's very much like DOI, made up of numerous
bureaus that cover many of the same sectors

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that we cover.

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They also have a significant law enforcement
entity within there, their Bureau of Fisheries

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and Aquatic Resources.

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As you saw in some of my previous slides,
coral fish, very significant in the country.

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The protection of that falls on their Department
of Agriculture Bureau of Fisheries or BFAR.

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BFAR plays a very important role in terms
of environmental law enforcement in the country.

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The Philippine National Police also gets involved,
the Coast Guard.

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The National Bureau of Investigation within
the Philippines is comparable to our own Federal

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Bureau of Investigation.

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They have an environment crimes division that
takes a very large role in terms of dealing

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with environmental crime within the country.

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Of course, their court system and their Department
of Justice.

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Philippines is also a founding member of ASEAN,
which is a very strong organization of Southeast

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Asian countries that deal with a wide range
of issues, but certainly has a law enforcement

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component to it as well.

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Zeroing in a little bit on the country, we
see the three island groups.

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Luzon to the north, Mindanao to the south.

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The capital of Manila is just on the southern
part of Luzon.

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We start to see this network of 7,500 islands
that make up the Philippines.

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A few photos of this very beautiful and diverse
country.

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[pause]

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Mike: That's the Philippine eagle, the national
bird.

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[pause]

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Mike: Abundant forests, beautiful rainforests
there.

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Significant volcanic activity, which most
people know or heard of in the Philippines.

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[laughs]

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[pause]

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Mike: That was not the biggest monitor lizard
I saw, but there are some very large ones.

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[laughs]

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[pause]

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Mike: Just a beautiful place.

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[pause]

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Mike: Let's talk a little bit more about wildlife
within the Philippines.

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As I mentioned, we have our LEMIS system,
the official wildlife service.

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We track all import-export activity.

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I thought, "Well, that sounds like a good
place for me to get some statistics about

00:14:12.800 --> 00:14:18.230
our relationship with the Philippines," especially
as it pertains to wildlife, wildlife import.

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Some of the common species that we see, that
come from the Philippines into our country

00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:23.440
here.

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[pause]

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Mike: I also pulled a few statistics.

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This isn't the whole year of 2016, but about
nine months of the year.

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We can see some very large numbers of mostly
marine species.

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These are the top four that came into the
United States in 2016, with respect to declared

00:14:43.770 --> 00:14:44.770
value.

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We can see there's a significant economic
relationship that we have, with respect to

00:14:51.410 --> 00:15:02.330
wildlife imported into the US from the country,
and a breakdown of shipments that we see and

00:15:02.330 --> 00:15:06.490
process within our deck system, including
the number that we refuse each year.

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Again, 2016 is a partial year's worth of data.

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Let's drill down a little bit further.

00:15:15.670 --> 00:15:18.700
Now, let's talk about environmental crime
in the Philippines.

00:15:18.700 --> 00:15:24.290
The bullets that I have on this slide, it
probably applied to a number of developing

00:15:24.290 --> 00:15:27.649
countries throughout the world, with respect
to environmental crime.

00:15:27.649 --> 00:15:29.470
It's highly profitable.

00:15:29.470 --> 00:15:32.450
It's rapidly expanding.

00:15:32.450 --> 00:15:33.450
It's good money.

00:15:33.450 --> 00:15:41.610
It's easy money for very organized criminal
organizations, tens of billions of dollars.

00:15:41.610 --> 00:15:44.640
Most of that is going through international
crime syndicates.

00:15:44.640 --> 00:15:52.120
It's organized crime that's exploiting countries
and exploiting its wildlife, its natural resources.

00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:54.680
These criminal groups are organized.

00:15:54.680 --> 00:15:58.459
They're very focused on Asia-Pacific region
and countries like the Philippines, because

00:15:58.459 --> 00:16:07.420
they are so abundant in resources, but generally,
not necessarily in a position where they can

00:16:07.420 --> 00:16:11.980
defend themselves against some of these organizations,
some of the people who want to exploit their

00:16:11.980 --> 00:16:14.240
resources.

00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:18.339
The number of environmental laws in the country,
in the Philippines, has greatly exceeded the

00:16:18.339 --> 00:16:20.240
capabilities of the organizations they have.

00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.250
I mentioned the Department of Environment
and Natural Resources, BFAR.

00:16:23.250 --> 00:16:26.720
There's a commitment by the country.

00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:29.870
They're trying to do what they can.

00:16:29.870 --> 00:16:35.040
It's extremely difficult for them to combat
the level of crime that occurs in the country.

00:16:35.040 --> 00:16:38.820
One of their biggest challenges is they don't
really have a physical presence throughout

00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:39.820
the country.

00:16:39.820 --> 00:16:41.490
We have all these little islands scattered
everywhere.

00:16:41.490 --> 00:16:46.020
It's extremely difficult for environmental
law enforcement agencies in the Philippines

00:16:46.020 --> 00:16:48.800
to just really be where so many of the crimes
are happening.

00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:52.140
Some of the crimes that occur are appalling.

00:16:52.140 --> 00:16:55.230
I found it overwhelming.

00:16:55.230 --> 00:16:59.310
Large-scale mining operations and logging
operations that are being done illegally in

00:16:59.310 --> 00:17:02.950
their country, often by foreign nationals.

00:17:02.950 --> 00:17:06.309
It's hard to imagine that that could happen.

00:17:06.309 --> 00:17:13.189
[laughs] I've seen photos of certain cases
they had, where they had very significant

00:17:13.189 --> 00:17:19.279
operations that were completely illegal and
were extracting resources from the country.

00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:23.110
Physical presence, the resources to be able
to fight that is extremely difficult.

00:17:23.110 --> 00:17:28.370
The perception of environmental crime being,
as I put there, "victim-less."

00:17:28.370 --> 00:17:32.499
It's high profit, low risk.

00:17:32.499 --> 00:17:33.859
Chances are pretty good you won't get caught.

00:17:33.859 --> 00:17:37.200
If you do, chances are pretty good that the
penalty may not be very significant.

00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:41.330
We'll talk about that in a little bit, with
respect to this project, as we move along.

00:17:41.330 --> 00:17:47.609
Also, just the sheer cost, the difficulty
of trying to bring a prosecution forward is

00:17:47.609 --> 00:17:51.489
extremely difficult, challenging for any country,
and especially a developing country like the

00:17:51.489 --> 00:17:54.889
Philippines.

00:17:54.889 --> 00:17:58.830
Like so many countries, there are as I put
there in my first bullet, they are faced with

00:17:58.830 --> 00:18:04.840
a scourge of this illegal smuggling and trafficking
of humans, drugs, weapons, and wildlife as

00:18:04.840 --> 00:18:07.230
well.

00:18:07.230 --> 00:18:11.860
It's overwhelming for a number of countries
and certainly true in Philippines as well.

00:18:11.860 --> 00:18:16.570
My second statistic there with respect to
just again, focusing on environmental with

00:18:16.570 --> 00:18:20.639
the World Bank's estimate, $15 billion a year
just from illegal logging.

00:18:20.639 --> 00:18:25.769
This is rampant in the Philippines, rampant
extraction and illegal logging within the

00:18:25.769 --> 00:18:36.659
country and often being done by outside foreign
entities.

00:18:36.659 --> 00:18:39.399
This has a profound impact on any country.

00:18:39.399 --> 00:18:41.159
It's certainly within the Philippines.

00:18:41.159 --> 00:18:46.889
For some things, it's pretty obvious but a
much broader impact for this country so we

00:18:46.889 --> 00:18:48.269
have species and habitat loss.

00:18:48.269 --> 00:18:51.830
Same as here, a significant issue, deforestation.

00:18:51.830 --> 00:18:56.640
The natural resources of the country, especially
the aquatic resources, they are the lifeblood.

00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:03.230
It is at a critical part of the country's
economy and exports as we saw just from what

00:19:03.230 --> 00:19:10.899
comes to the US, and just simply food supply
and food security.

00:19:10.899 --> 00:19:16.970
It's a matter of life and death in terms of
having these resources extracted and exploited

00:19:16.970 --> 00:19:20.899
within that country as the people rely so
much on those natural resources for their

00:19:20.899 --> 00:19:21.900
very survival.

00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:27.350
It also slows down their economy because there
are exports of these, of legitimate exports

00:19:27.350 --> 00:19:35.960
of the commercial activity is profoundly impacted
by these types of activities.

00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:37.049
How do we get involved?

00:19:37.049 --> 00:19:39.450
How do we take action against environmental
crime in this country?

00:19:39.450 --> 00:19:44.639
First off and the most important part is the
Philippines government is extremely motivated

00:19:44.639 --> 00:19:45.900
to try to deal with this.

00:19:45.900 --> 00:19:51.090
We are very proud of the country, proud of
their resources, protective of it and they

00:19:51.090 --> 00:19:52.779
are motivated to do something about it.

00:19:52.779 --> 00:19:57.989
They devote time, they devote resources and
agencies to deal with it.

00:19:57.989 --> 00:20:03.799
Also, they are open to the idea of working
with partners like ourselves to help them

00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:05.150
accomplish that.

00:20:05.150 --> 00:20:08.980
A couple of things that are of significance
that get us involved.

00:20:08.980 --> 00:20:15.369
First of all, the 2013 anti-Wildlife Trafficking
Executive Order, which will certainly put

00:20:15.369 --> 00:20:20.119
a country like the Philippines very much in
our radar is a country we would want to work

00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:23.620
with, with respect to that order.

00:20:23.620 --> 00:20:29.590
Also a February 9, 2017 Executive Order enforcing
law Enforcement Respective With Transnational

00:20:29.590 --> 00:20:30.950
Criminal Organizations.

00:20:30.950 --> 00:20:36.570
I mentioned that earlier that so much of the
exploitation of the country being by syndicates,

00:20:36.570 --> 00:20:44.059
by very organized criminal organizations,
included in the policy statement that Executive

00:20:44.059 --> 00:20:49.850
Order as we see our second point down there,
"Illegal smuggling of traffic of humans, drugs,

00:20:49.850 --> 00:20:52.100
weapons, and wildlife as well."

00:20:52.100 --> 00:20:54.769
It becomes a priority for us as well.

00:20:54.769 --> 00:21:00.559
I also highlighted there, "Enhancing cooperation
with foreign counterparts against these organizations."

00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:06.059
The Philippines willingness to deal with this
issue and their openness to working with us

00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:13.529
sets up a good formula to try to attack that
in that country.

00:21:13.529 --> 00:21:19.369
Likewise, the USAID has included biodiversity
conservation and natural resource management

00:21:19.369 --> 00:21:25.809
as priorities in what it calls its Country
Development Cooperation Strategy with the

00:21:25.809 --> 00:21:26.809
Philippines.

00:21:26.809 --> 00:21:31.399
They've made it a priority as well for these
specific environmental issues and environmental

00:21:31.399 --> 00:21:32.399
crimes.

00:21:32.399 --> 00:21:40.950
Which leads us to the Partnership for Biodiversity
Conservation, which is ITAP's dedicated project

00:21:40.950 --> 00:21:43.809
to the Philippines to deal with these specific
issues.

00:21:43.809 --> 00:21:50.100
I'll go over the PBC a little bit here and
then where I came into the picture of some

00:21:50.100 --> 00:21:54.879
of the work that we did specifically with
PBC.

00:21:54.879 --> 00:21:58.090
ITAP has a long history with the Philippines.

00:21:58.090 --> 00:22:06.570
It goes all the way back to 2004 and that
partnership at that time started with USAID.

00:22:06.570 --> 00:22:11.880
Its sole focus at the very beginning was to
work with national and local governments to

00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:13.779
try to address environmental crimes.

00:22:13.779 --> 00:22:17.450
It had very much a law enforcement focus to
the program.

00:22:17.450 --> 00:22:19.619
It has been broken up into three phases.

00:22:19.619 --> 00:22:23.009
We are currently in the third phase of PBC.

00:22:23.009 --> 00:22:25.489
PBC I was really what got things kicked off.

00:22:25.489 --> 00:22:33.539
It was to get the idea of getting the different
organizations -- Philippines National Police,

00:22:33.539 --> 00:22:39.109
the DENR, Bureau of Fisheries together, get
everybody on the same page, getting these

00:22:39.109 --> 00:22:44.230
law enforcement and federal and the local
law enforcement entities working together,

00:22:44.230 --> 00:22:48.110
supporting and sharing, exchanging information
between these organizations.

00:22:48.110 --> 00:22:57.399
Within PBC I started what was an every five-year
conference called the National Environmental

00:22:57.399 --> 00:23:01.129
Law Enforcement Conference, that gets all
these different agencies that deal with environmental

00:23:01.129 --> 00:23:05.249
and law enforcement, puts them together in
one room, gets everybody communicating, trying

00:23:05.249 --> 00:23:09.779
to establish standards and make sure everyone
is on the same page in terms of attacking

00:23:09.779 --> 00:23:10.779
this issue.

00:23:10.779 --> 00:23:18.629
That was a significant part of PBC I.

00:23:18.629 --> 00:23:23.279
PBC II, the next phase of it then started
to get a little more specific.

00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:29.960
Here we had significant accomplishments with
respect to developing an actual law enforcement

00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.789
protocol for the Bureau of Fisheries which
was significant.

00:23:33.789 --> 00:23:39.559
The director of Bureau of Fisheries was highly
motivated, had a very much a law enforcement

00:23:39.559 --> 00:23:44.269
focus, was willing to put his time, his resources,
and his people to try to address this.

00:23:44.269 --> 00:23:49.099
They were really a lead organization in terms
of protecting their natural resources and

00:23:49.099 --> 00:23:51.549
having a law enforcement focus.

00:23:51.549 --> 00:23:54.840
That protocol was developed during that time,
during PBC II.

00:23:54.840 --> 00:24:02.639
Also, a lot of work was done to start to work
with forestry as well within DENR.

00:24:02.639 --> 00:24:06.770
Some of the significant accomplishments during
this phase were developing standard, training

00:24:06.770 --> 00:24:10.029
modules, and training protocols that were
followed.

00:24:10.029 --> 00:24:16.479
This was an opportunity again for ITAP through
PBC to bring a number of DOI bureau individuals

00:24:16.479 --> 00:24:20.049
including a number of office law enforcement
people that are organizations that I work

00:24:20.049 --> 00:24:24.289
for, that actually start to work government
to government with law enforcement agencies

00:24:24.289 --> 00:24:27.000
there, with their law enforcement officers.

00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:32.289
Really trying to train, set up, establish,
and provide training that's very much within

00:24:32.289 --> 00:24:36.419
their protocols so that all the different
bureaus were handling environmental law enforcement

00:24:36.419 --> 00:24:39.720
the same way.

00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:47.111
Likewise, a couple of the other issues that
they looked at were the issue of forensics.

00:24:47.111 --> 00:24:52.799
The University of Philippines has an excellent
wildlife lab, but it wasn't necessarily...It's

00:24:52.799 --> 00:25:01.830
not set up as a forensics lab that can deal
with actual wildlife crime.

00:25:01.830 --> 00:25:05.220
During this phase, we are starting to look
at their forensics capabilities, and whether

00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:11.260
or not that could be expanded to support more
law enforcement efforts as well.

00:25:11.260 --> 00:25:19.149
We got involved in 2013 with PBC II was as
I'd mentioned Bureau of Fisheries, BFAR earlier,

00:25:19.149 --> 00:25:23.350
they were highly motivated and they really
wanted to...The other thing that they wanted

00:25:23.350 --> 00:25:28.929
to look at was information management -- how
they managed their cases, how they document

00:25:28.929 --> 00:25:32.470
their cases.

00:25:32.470 --> 00:25:38.159
Their biggest challenge is this lost opportunity
with respect to prosecution.

00:25:38.159 --> 00:25:43.779
Bring a case to the Justice Department, you
bring it to the prosecutor, and you just flat-out

00:25:43.779 --> 00:25:50.190
miss the basics of just good-quality law enforcement
documentation and subsequently, missed out

00:25:50.190 --> 00:25:53.359
on the opportunity for the prosecution.

00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:57.070
Building into this phase, as they also wanted
to have good information management, a law

00:25:57.070 --> 00:26:02.899
enforcement system of their own where they
could track that type of information.

00:26:02.899 --> 00:26:16.349
I first got involved 
and it was with the Bureau of Fisheries that

00:26:16.349 --> 00:26:19.190
they decided almost rather [laughs] abruptly.

00:26:19.190 --> 00:26:22.710
It's like, "We want to have a law enforcement
management information system.

00:26:22.710 --> 00:26:25.590
What yours like maybe we'll just use that?"

00:26:25.590 --> 00:26:30.590
"Well, I don't know that ours is exactly what
you need, but let's take a look at what you

00:26:30.590 --> 00:26:31.590
have."

00:26:31.590 --> 00:26:37.440
We visited with the individuals from Bureau
of Fisheries and they were actually in great

00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:39.179
shape.

00:26:39.179 --> 00:26:43.299
They brought together a whole group of people
from all the different sectors, law enforcement

00:26:43.299 --> 00:26:48.970
officers, they had their own data center,
they already had other systems they were tracking

00:26:48.970 --> 00:26:51.869
fishermen registration for fishing vessels.

00:26:51.869 --> 00:26:56.389
They had an IT infrastructure that was already
in place.

00:26:56.389 --> 00:27:02.269
Really, I felt they had people and within
their own organization had built that.

00:27:02.269 --> 00:27:03.799
They knew how to work with databases.

00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:07.850
Basically, it was just a case of getting them
together with their law enforcers to figure

00:27:07.850 --> 00:27:15.009
out how to add that capability within the
systems that they already had.

00:27:15.009 --> 00:27:16.009
This was our IT team.

00:27:16.009 --> 00:27:20.590
I get really excited about that because when
we started we had two people on our IT team.

00:27:20.590 --> 00:27:22.070
I was like, "You have all these people?

00:27:22.070 --> 00:27:23.070
This is great."

00:27:23.070 --> 00:27:25.940
[laughs] You were in the room and there are
programmers everywhere just banging on their

00:27:25.940 --> 00:27:27.649
keyboards.

00:27:27.649 --> 00:27:35.679
They had the skills and they had the ability
to build something for themselves.

00:27:35.679 --> 00:27:38.039
Our meeting with them that week was fascinating.

00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:41.110
We spent a couple of days and we explained
our system.

00:27:41.110 --> 00:27:43.889
We went through the different modules, and
how the pieces and parts worked.

00:27:43.889 --> 00:27:46.139
It was almost very, oh, that's interesting.

00:27:46.139 --> 00:27:48.890
Maybe a few questions and then the idea at
the end of the week as they would come back

00:27:48.890 --> 00:27:55.090
and present how they might apply that and
do that type of system for themselves.

00:27:55.090 --> 00:27:57.929
Within a week, it was amazing.

00:27:57.929 --> 00:28:02.679
They had mapped our entire program [laughs]
in terms of how we did it, they had applied

00:28:02.679 --> 00:28:05.460
it to how it would work best for them.

00:28:05.460 --> 00:28:11.279
Within a year, they had built their Fisheries
Law Enforcement Management Information System,

00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:13.129
FLEMIS.

00:28:13.129 --> 00:28:19.259
FLEMIS at this point as they've gone through
they've trained officers around the country.

00:28:19.259 --> 00:28:20.259
It's an interesting system.

00:28:20.259 --> 00:28:26.789
It's very focused on their management of vessels.

00:28:26.789 --> 00:28:30.700
The idea is have a group that's called the
quick response team, QRT.

00:28:30.700 --> 00:28:35.809
QRT officers board a vessel, they inspect
that vessel, they may seize what's on it,

00:28:35.809 --> 00:28:38.140
they may pass it.

00:28:38.140 --> 00:28:41.419
Somewhat in the similarity of what may be
our wildlife inspectors would do.

00:28:41.419 --> 00:28:44.440
They built a system that was very much mapped
around their exact process.

00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:46.359
It was pretty impressive.

00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:55.179
A couple of screenshots of it.

00:28:55.179 --> 00:28:59.120
The great thing that they had with FLEMIS
is that they already had a registration database

00:28:59.120 --> 00:29:00.120
for all the vessels.

00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:03.309
They were going to do an inspection on a vessel
they could bring it up.

00:29:03.309 --> 00:29:05.960
They knew who the captain was, they knew all
the information about the vessel, and they

00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:09.700
were able to tie that into their system right
as they boarded it to be able to do their

00:29:09.700 --> 00:29:16.470
inspection or their investigation.

00:29:16.470 --> 00:29:19.629
[pause]

00:29:19.629 --> 00:29:25.359
Mike: We used the PBC III because the work
continues.

00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:30.099
That PBC III starts to drill in a little bit
more specifically on really getting into the

00:29:30.099 --> 00:29:36.100
details of working with the Philippines to
address their environmental crime issues.

00:29:36.100 --> 00:29:40.210
Now there's a lot more trying to get cooperation
between national governments and local governments.

00:29:40.210 --> 00:29:43.580
The local government is such an important
part of how the country is managed.

00:29:43.580 --> 00:29:48.499
I mentioned earlier that the national law
enforcement organization simply can't cover

00:29:48.499 --> 00:29:50.289
this vast country.

00:29:50.289 --> 00:29:52.710
Their ability to work with local entities
is absolutely critical.

00:29:52.710 --> 00:29:59.740
It's an important focus of the PBC program.

00:29:59.740 --> 00:30:06.460
It also now is to take and develop a full
on wildlife forensics program within the Philippines,

00:30:06.460 --> 00:30:10.350
try to keep enhancing capacity and skills
of the different environmental law enforcement

00:30:10.350 --> 00:30:15.460
personnel, scale up existing systems, develop
their own training center.

00:30:15.460 --> 00:30:20.120
We'd mentioned in earlier phases of PBC that
training protocols were developed and they

00:30:20.120 --> 00:30:25.240
are deployed on the ground, and we bring in
different officers to work with the law enforcement

00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:29.799
officers in the Philippines so the people
we can see being trained across bureau on

00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:31.979
a very consistent basis.

00:30:31.979 --> 00:30:34.440
They investigate cases the same way.

00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:40.580
They generate documentation that is consistent
so that when a prosecutor sees it whether

00:30:40.580 --> 00:30:44.549
it's whatever type of sector it's in, they're
seeing something that's very consistent.

00:30:44.549 --> 00:30:49.279
They're working with officers, they're trained
on a consistent basis.

00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:55.269
The second-to-last bullet that I have there,
[laughs] obviously pretty wordy, but a really

00:30:55.269 --> 00:30:57.309
important component of this, as well.

00:30:57.309 --> 00:31:02.909
This gets into a little bit of the "punishment
fits the crime" situation.

00:31:02.909 --> 00:31:07.759
As is probably in any country, one of the
issues, as well, is how do you do sentencing?

00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:13.729
What is the penalty for an illegal take of
any kind of wildlife, or deforestation?

00:31:13.729 --> 00:31:18.629
How do we price that, how do we make that
such that, if you do that, there are consequences?

00:31:18.629 --> 00:31:24.029
If we can get the prosecution that far, will
you be penalized to such a state that it's

00:31:24.029 --> 00:31:25.070
a deterrent?

00:31:25.070 --> 00:31:29.869
That was something that was really lacking
in the country, in general.

00:31:29.869 --> 00:31:34.519
One of the things that the PBC III Phase is
looking at is, is trying to help the country,

00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:40.720
really, do a more realistic assessment of
value of ecosystems, value of natural resources,

00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:46.450
with the idea that that can tie-in on the
sentencing side, as well.

00:31:46.450 --> 00:31:48.279
More of it's just, again, on public awareness.

00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:53.000
I mentioned earlier, barangays and neighborhoods,
and the wide distribution of people throughout

00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:59.320
the country, without the local buy-in of supporting
wildlife or natural resource law enforcement,

00:31:59.320 --> 00:32:05.859
none of these initiatives were really going
to very successful.

00:32:05.859 --> 00:32:10.419
Drilling down a little bit on what's been
going on in that phase, specifically with

00:32:10.419 --> 00:32:15.389
law enforcement, I break it down into wildlife
law enforcement, investigations and prosecutions,

00:32:15.389 --> 00:32:18.590
and adjudication, so cradle to grave.

00:32:18.590 --> 00:32:23.159
We, basically, want to work with the country
to get everything from what happens in the

00:32:23.159 --> 00:32:28.909
field, understanding enforcement issues, how
to find crimes, how to deal with those crimes,

00:32:28.909 --> 00:32:35.169
taking an investigative phase and actually
documenting it properly, collecting good evidence,

00:32:35.169 --> 00:32:40.320
doing good analysis of that evidence, making
sure appropriate record-keeping is happening.

00:32:40.320 --> 00:32:46.080
Then being able to hand that over to the justice
system, in a way that the prosecutor has a

00:32:46.080 --> 00:32:51.339
higher likelihood of success in a prosecution.

00:32:51.339 --> 00:32:56.059
Paralleling a lot of these events was, the
Philippines was working on established green

00:32:56.059 --> 00:33:02.500
courts through the PBC program, their prosecutors
being trained, judges being trained on environmental

00:33:02.500 --> 00:33:07.309
crime, how to look at those cases, how to
deal with those cases.

00:33:07.309 --> 00:33:10.769
Some of this focus on the project was trying
to get all those pieces, so that what you

00:33:10.769 --> 00:33:16.200
train them to see and understand, is being
done on a consistent basis from any law enforcement

00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:26.499
organization, including, again, information
systems and documentation.

00:33:26.499 --> 00:33:33.629
Couple photos of some training activities
that have occurred within the last year.

00:33:33.629 --> 00:33:40.059
Good evidence collection, field practices,
interviewing skills.

00:33:40.059 --> 00:33:51.009
The gentleman on the left is James Hampton,
a special agent in our Houston office, working

00:33:51.009 --> 00:33:58.340
on interviewing skills, filling out summons.

00:33:58.340 --> 00:34:01.559
Those activities have been going on with the
training, but the piece that's missing is...yes?

00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:03.700
Audience Member: [inaudible 34:02].

00:34:03.700 --> 00:34:09.000
Mike: [laughs] The piece that's missing is
law enforcement information and law enforcement

00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:11.240
information system.

00:34:11.240 --> 00:34:18.280
I'll probably jump here.

00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:22.651
That led to the National...I mentioned earlier,
the National Environmental Law Enforcement

00:34:22.651 --> 00:34:25.090
seminars that had started about 15 years ago.

00:34:25.090 --> 00:34:33.180
The third one that occurred in 2015, all of
the environmental law enforcement entities

00:34:33.180 --> 00:34:36.020
got together at this conference.

00:34:36.020 --> 00:34:39.560
The most important thing that happened there,
with respect to information systems, was that

00:34:39.560 --> 00:34:43.830
BFAR presented their FLEMIS system.

00:34:43.830 --> 00:34:46.520
It was well-received, people were excited,
they wanted a piece of it.

00:34:46.520 --> 00:34:49.340
BFAR had done it, they had built a system.

00:34:49.340 --> 00:34:54.500
It had been discussed within these groups
for 15 years, but some entity had put it together,

00:34:54.500 --> 00:34:56.419
made the system work.

00:34:56.419 --> 00:35:04.030
That led to my third point there, and that
is a consensus within the participants that,

00:35:04.030 --> 00:35:07.760
they would need a multi-agency environmental
law enforcement system.

00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:12.860
DENR agrees to take the lead on that, they
have statutory responsibility.

00:35:12.860 --> 00:35:16.060
Another key point that happened with that
is the National Bureau of Investigation, who's

00:35:16.060 --> 00:35:21.500
really looking at multi-sectoral investigation
activities, also agreed to be part of that

00:35:21.500 --> 00:35:23.180
effort.

00:35:23.180 --> 00:35:28.430
We moved forward, and I'm going to skip through
a couple things.

00:35:28.430 --> 00:35:34.480
DENR takes the lead, and then in November
of 2015, they get together their leaders to

00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:39.800
map out how this system will be, how it'll
be supported by each of the organizations,

00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:44.130
how it'll be built with the idea of signing
an MoU between the organizations who would

00:35:44.130 --> 00:35:45.130
be involved.

00:35:45.130 --> 00:35:47.250
Having the NBI involved in it was critical.

00:35:47.250 --> 00:35:49.830
The third gentleman from the left is the Director
of the NBI.

00:35:49.830 --> 00:35:53.640
They were very much committed to being involved
in this process.

00:35:53.640 --> 00:36:00.620
We went through an information gathering phase
to put all that together, and then in June

00:36:00.620 --> 00:36:06.910
of 2016, we established a user acceptance
team of individuals from different sectors

00:36:06.910 --> 00:36:13.610
within DENR, to have a summit to design the
program.

00:36:13.610 --> 00:36:19.100
It was represented by three main entities
within DENR -- the Mining group, the Biodiversity

00:36:19.100 --> 00:36:22.370
Management group, Wildlife, and the Forest
Management Bureau.

00:36:22.370 --> 00:36:28.261
The idea was that they would build from scratch,
a system that would address all law enforcement

00:36:28.261 --> 00:36:34.220
tracking throughout the entire DENR, with
the idea that other entities, other law enforcers,

00:36:34.220 --> 00:36:39.330
could tap into that system.

00:36:39.330 --> 00:36:44.550
Went through about a two-week process with
that group, locked them all in a room together,

00:36:44.550 --> 00:36:48.230
brought in a few other technical experts,
with the idea of basically putting together

00:36:48.230 --> 00:36:52.010
this program from scratch.

00:36:52.010 --> 00:36:55.810
We followed a process called the agile manifesto
for software development.

00:36:55.810 --> 00:36:59.990
It's rapid application development with the
idea that this program could be built faster,

00:36:59.990 --> 00:37:06.260
would be built by them, and it would be very
flexible, to meet the needs of all these organizations.

00:37:06.260 --> 00:37:10.990
I'll move through.

00:37:10.990 --> 00:37:16.110
Part of that process, then, is to take each
of the different bureau members and define,

00:37:16.110 --> 00:37:19.540
what we call, personas.

00:37:19.540 --> 00:37:24.820
Personas are the different players or users
of the application itself.

00:37:24.820 --> 00:37:31.860
We broke that into categories, including law
enforcers, criminal investigators, front-line

00:37:31.860 --> 00:37:37.660
managers, provincial and community, environmental,
and natural resource offices, individuals

00:37:37.660 --> 00:37:42.040
that represent more the local government agencies
within the Philippines, many of whom have

00:37:42.040 --> 00:37:46.100
a significant role or responsibility in environmental
law enforcement.

00:37:46.100 --> 00:37:50.050
They became a persona or a user of the program,
as well.

00:37:50.050 --> 00:37:55.820
Your upper managers, and of course, your prosecutors.

00:37:55.820 --> 00:38:00.640
We walked through the process of designing
the system based on all these personas, and

00:38:00.640 --> 00:38:02.740
what's called, developing a user journey.

00:38:02.740 --> 00:38:07.410
For each persona, we developed this user journey
of how it is that user used the program, what

00:38:07.410 --> 00:38:10.800
are they trying to accomplish.

00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.520
Law enforcers, very specific.

00:38:12.520 --> 00:38:16.480
They're on the ground, they're in the field,
they're either identifying crimes that are

00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:19.660
happening, they're being notified of crimes
that are happening, they need the system to

00:38:19.660 --> 00:38:23.710
work in way where they can get that information
in there, get their cases quickly put in,

00:38:23.710 --> 00:38:25.100
and readily documented.

00:38:25.100 --> 00:38:30.090
Criminal investigators, this is more your
group from the NBI, these individuals are

00:38:30.090 --> 00:38:35.970
probably looking on much larger, much broader
investigations, that may span multiple sectors,

00:38:35.970 --> 00:38:40.890
it might be mining and forestry that they're
working on.

00:38:40.890 --> 00:38:46.010
Their journey within the application also
had to be mapped out, with the idea to build

00:38:46.010 --> 00:38:53.260
something like this, a very simple schematic
of this centralized, standardized data system

00:38:53.260 --> 00:38:59.370
for all environmental law enforcement players
throughout the Philippines.

00:38:59.370 --> 00:39:03.660
We would tie-in all the different systems,
as each bureau built what they need to fit

00:39:03.660 --> 00:39:04.660
in.

00:39:04.660 --> 00:39:09.820
We see the Bureau of Fisheries there, this
DENR ELEMIS program were there, NBI there,

00:39:09.820 --> 00:39:18.280
and other entities including the National
Police, the Coast Guard, Palawan Council for

00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:21.620
Sustainable Development also being able to
tie into this system so they can expand and

00:39:21.620 --> 00:39:25.840
they can add the different players.

00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:30.040
We were able to establish a national data
standard based on information from the NBI,

00:39:30.040 --> 00:39:32.160
so that everyone's speaking the same language.

00:39:32.160 --> 00:39:36.740
They have the same data, the same critical
information within the system, and everyone's

00:39:36.740 --> 00:39:38.040
collecting it the same way.

00:39:38.040 --> 00:39:42.190
Again, that idea of, let's be consistent with
our documentation so that a prosecutor, whether

00:39:42.190 --> 00:39:47.220
it's a mining case, forestry case, wildlife
case, or a combination of any of those, is

00:39:47.220 --> 00:39:50.660
seeing the same type of information presented,
very consistent.

00:39:50.660 --> 00:40:00.580
We're trying to map this, is subject-based
application, that ties violations, evidence,

00:40:00.580 --> 00:40:10.630
reports, all the pieces and parts of the case
together to a criminal who committed a crime.

00:40:10.630 --> 00:40:14.690
With this user acceptance team, we designed
out the whole database, all the key components.

00:40:14.690 --> 00:40:18.420
I think anyone in this room could sit down,
in five minutes and probably map out what

00:40:18.420 --> 00:40:20.630
ought to be at a law enforcement system.

00:40:20.630 --> 00:40:22.670
The real key to it is, how to link everything
together.

00:40:22.670 --> 00:40:32.320
We spend a great deal of time, working on
linking, and how that linking analysis works.

00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:35.450
This is the group.

00:40:35.450 --> 00:40:38.080
Lots of gesturing, hand waving, white-boarding,
[laughs] arguing.

00:40:38.080 --> 00:40:43.280
It was a fascinating experience to watch them
go through this process of building this system

00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:51.280
for themselves.

00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:52.990
This group put that together.

00:40:52.990 --> 00:40:58.710
This was in the June of 2016, and they said,
"We'll have it ready for initial testing in

00:40:58.710 --> 00:40:59.710
October."

00:40:59.710 --> 00:41:01.250
I said, "You gotta be kidding me!"

00:41:01.250 --> 00:41:02.400
[laughs] and they did.

00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:07.250
Indeed, by October, they'd brought in officers
from all over the country, spent three days

00:41:07.250 --> 00:41:10.190
working through their system, adding enhancements
to it.

00:41:10.190 --> 00:41:16.250
They've since had another user acceptance
team, where they brought officers from other

00:41:16.250 --> 00:41:17.480
regions together.

00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:24.120
The program, they're putting the finishing
touches on it, and hope to, before the end

00:41:24.120 --> 00:41:26.110
of the fiscal year, have it deployed nationwide.

00:41:26.110 --> 00:41:27.110
Thanks.

00:41:27.110 --> 00:41:31.580
Malka: We're going to start asking questions.

00:41:31.580 --> 00:41:35.000
Any questions in the room?

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:37.050
Audience Member: Hello.

00:41:37.050 --> 00:41:48.010
It's a little bit off-topic, but I was wondering,
what role does China's claims in the South

00:41:48.010 --> 00:41:56.810
Chinese Sea have on the Filipinos ability
to protect their environmental resources,

00:41:56.810 --> 00:42:00.330
specifically in relation to the fisheries...

00:42:00.330 --> 00:42:03.800
Mike: It presents a significant challenge
for them.

00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:04.800
[laughs]

00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:10.160
Audience Member: And whether we can go forward
and address these problems?

00:42:10.160 --> 00:42:14.551
Mike: A lot of the effort of this project
is one thing, is giving their, whether it

00:42:14.551 --> 00:42:21.110
be the Coast Guard, Philippine Navy, the Bureau
of Fisheries, the ability to combat those

00:42:21.110 --> 00:42:24.720
more crimes more easily, is definitely a good
place to start.

00:42:24.720 --> 00:42:29.900
A significant number of the illegal extraction
activities that happen in that area, they're

00:42:29.900 --> 00:42:34.180
well-aware, occur from Vietnamese and Chinese
nationals.

00:42:34.180 --> 00:42:41.390
They've busted up illegal mining operations,
where all the individuals there are foreign

00:42:41.390 --> 00:42:42.390
nationals.

00:42:42.390 --> 00:42:45.510
Just getting the different law enforcement
entities working together and focused on that

00:42:45.510 --> 00:42:49.400
is, I guess, where they start.

00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:52.240
Malka: Any questions in the Internet?

00:42:52.240 --> 00:42:56.120
Computer Operator: There's no questions yet.

00:42:56.120 --> 00:42:58.190
Malka: All right.

00:42:58.190 --> 00:43:04.240
Audience Member: My questions relates to the
Philippines' rather aggressive enforcement

00:43:04.240 --> 00:43:07.520
of drug trafficking, drug dealing.

00:43:07.520 --> 00:43:13.350
In several of your slides, you show a linkage
between wildlife trafficking and drug trafficking.

00:43:13.350 --> 00:43:20.420
Are any of those rather aggressive penalties
being imposed on people in wildlife trafficking,

00:43:20.420 --> 00:43:23.960
the same as has happened to some of the drug
dealers?

00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:33.220
Mike: I'm not sure they've been able to...They're
trying to apply that same level, but it's

00:43:33.220 --> 00:43:36.770
a little more difficult, a little more challenging,
with this idea of victim-less crime, getting

00:43:36.770 --> 00:43:43.670
the court system and people to actually view
natural resources as a victim quite to the

00:43:43.670 --> 00:43:46.370
same level of drug trafficking.

00:43:46.370 --> 00:43:49.640
Specifically in the Philippines, I think you're
maybe referring to some of the things you've

00:43:49.640 --> 00:43:50.720
seen in the headlines, with...

00:43:50.720 --> 00:43:51.740
Audience Member: I am, exactly.

00:43:51.740 --> 00:43:52.740
Mike: [laughs]

00:43:52.740 --> 00:43:54.830
Audience Member: I wanted to step around it,
but I just wondered if they're going to try

00:43:54.830 --> 00:43:58.940
to impose those kind of penalties across the
board.

00:43:58.940 --> 00:44:01.250
Mike: I haven't seen that yet.

00:44:01.250 --> 00:44:06.280
Audience Member: You haven't seen it yet?

00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:07.280
OK, all right.

00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:08.280
[laughs]

00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:09.280
Malka: Any other questions?

00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:10.280
Internet?

00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:11.280
OK.

00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:12.280
Audience Member: Hi, Mike.

00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:13.280
Great presentation.

00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:15.710
Just wanted to ask you, when you referred
to FLEMIS, and then ELEMIS, are those going

00:44:15.710 --> 00:44:20.470
to be connected in such a way, where they
can tie exports of fishery products, for instance,

00:44:20.470 --> 00:44:23.320
to certain vessels, things of that nature.

00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:24.940
Will they be working together with the fisheries?

00:44:24.940 --> 00:44:30.120
Mike: Absolutely, and that's the whole idea
of the ELEMIS effort, is it's become the central

00:44:30.120 --> 00:44:31.120
database.

00:44:31.120 --> 00:44:36.660
The idea was that, FLEMIS was very successful,
and there was no reason to change what they're

00:44:36.660 --> 00:44:44.190
doing or take away what they're doing, because
it's very specific to them, but also, what

00:44:44.190 --> 00:44:47.600
they have couldn't necessarily be replicated
for everybody.

00:44:47.600 --> 00:44:52.050
The idea was that, if each bureau could very
have an interface that's focused on their

00:44:52.050 --> 00:44:58.560
laws, then you could tie it all together into
one central database, ELEMIS, yeah.

00:44:58.560 --> 00:45:02.631
That was really where NBI being a part of
it is pretty critical, as well, because they

00:45:02.631 --> 00:45:07.100
cross those different sectors and work on
those larger cases like that.

00:45:07.100 --> 00:45:12.160
Malka: Here we go, the room is more active.

00:45:12.160 --> 00:45:16.860
Audience Member: Why don't you try it, because
of the folks on the Internet...?

00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:18.800
Audience Member: Thank you for the presentation.

00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:23.250
I was wondering, since environmental crime
is often international and organized, are

00:45:23.250 --> 00:45:29.160
there efforts to take the data that will be
accrued in ELEMIS, eventually to an international

00:45:29.160 --> 00:45:31.480
level, where there's information sharing between
nations?

00:45:31.480 --> 00:45:32.480
Mike: Yes.

00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:35.540
Audience Member: Can you talk a little bit
about that?

00:45:35.540 --> 00:45:43.830
Mike: [laughs] As I mentioned, the Philippines
is part of the ASEAN network.

00:45:43.830 --> 00:45:47.330
I would say, they're probably ahead of the
curve of most of the countries within that

00:45:47.330 --> 00:45:51.301
network, and they may end up playing a pretty
pivotal role in maybe getting some of the

00:45:51.301 --> 00:45:58.350
other countries to play in that same arena.

00:45:58.350 --> 00:46:02.510
It's a little bit of getting their own house
in order with that first, with a much broader

00:46:02.510 --> 00:46:07.290
vision of tying into the ASEAN network and
certainly with us, as well.

00:46:07.290 --> 00:46:09.630
Malka: Any other questions?

00:46:09.630 --> 00:46:12.270
Then I get to ask one.

00:46:12.270 --> 00:46:16.000
Who do you go to for your economic evaluations?

00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:21.610
You say that, when you get to court, you need
to be ready with your assessments of damages.

00:46:21.610 --> 00:46:24.380
Do you go to Interior, economists, or...?

00:46:24.380 --> 00:46:29.740
Mike: I don't know if I'm the best person
to answer that question.

00:46:29.740 --> 00:46:36.320
Our agents, who investigate and prosecute
cases, are the ones who go through that process

00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:39.300
of evaluation and sentencing guidelines.

00:46:39.300 --> 00:46:42.800
They use a number of sources, but it's outside
my area of expertise.

00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:44.920
Malka: I have a second one.

00:46:44.920 --> 00:46:45.920
[laughter]

00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:51.870
Mike: You showed a lot of shipments being
stopped, what's the usual cause for stopping

00:46:51.870 --> 00:46:54.750
an entire shipment?

00:46:54.750 --> 00:46:58.580
Mike: Multitude of possibilities.

00:46:58.580 --> 00:47:05.640
Everything from simple administrative issues
to complete failure to declare, or even smuggling,

00:47:05.640 --> 00:47:08.230
so you name it.

00:47:08.230 --> 00:47:09.230
Everything across the board.

00:47:09.230 --> 00:47:10.400
Malka: We have a question in the back.

00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:19.610
Audience Member: I have more of a comment
for you, [inaudible 47:18].

00:47:19.610 --> 00:47:28.820
[laughs] You asked a question about the valuations,
sorry, piece, and that's one of the technical

00:47:28.820 --> 00:47:30.130
components of this program.

00:47:30.130 --> 00:47:34.510
We're working with experts from Fish and Wildlife
Service and National Parks Service, who have

00:47:34.510 --> 00:47:42.510
backgrounds in resource damages and economic
valuation, to help them decide how a policy

00:47:42.510 --> 00:47:43.510
can help them.

00:47:43.510 --> 00:47:48.360
They still have to be convinced that this
is a policy that they need to have to be able

00:47:48.360 --> 00:47:55.060
to set those fees and fines, so that it can
be a deterrence.

00:47:55.060 --> 00:47:59.580
Come August, a team that Mike works with,
but in the economic valuation piece, so it's

00:47:59.580 --> 00:48:03.740
going to be going out there, just to consult
with the proper people within the Philippines

00:48:03.740 --> 00:48:06.300
to explain to them how it works within the
United States.

00:48:06.300 --> 00:48:12.830
If they were to adapt an economic-valuations-type
policy for damages, how this can potentially

00:48:12.830 --> 00:48:16.150
help them in deterring some of these crimes.

00:48:16.150 --> 00:48:23.390
Lots of US experts are helping at this point,
just to get that started.

00:48:23.390 --> 00:48:26.830
Malka: The ITAP team is here.

00:48:26.830 --> 00:48:27.830
[laughter]

00:48:27.830 --> 00:48:32.350
Malka: Let's see if we have any other questions.

00:48:32.350 --> 00:48:33.350
Nothing from the Internet?

00:48:33.350 --> 00:48:34.770
Audience Member: One more [inaudible 48:34],
sorry.

00:48:34.770 --> 00:48:36.130
Malka: All right, I get to...

00:48:36.130 --> 00:48:39.240
Audience Member: [laughs] Mike, one quick
question about this, is this going to be a

00:48:39.240 --> 00:48:44.090
totally self-sustaining project in the end,
or is this something that's going to need

00:48:44.090 --> 00:48:46.830
continued support from the US or others?

00:48:46.830 --> 00:48:55.000
Mike: With respect to ELEMIS, the application
development process, I would say it's pretty

00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:56.270
much self-sustaining.

00:48:56.270 --> 00:49:00.960
They built the program themselves, they maintain
it themselves, they have their own infrastructure.

00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:06.180
I got to be involved, I would've loved to
have programmed it but I didn't get to [laughs]

00:49:06.180 --> 00:49:08.240
because they had people to do it.

00:49:08.240 --> 00:49:16.250
To be honest with you, the direction that
they're headed with that program -- I'll just

00:49:16.250 --> 00:49:20.280
be that guy who talked too fast and helped
out a little bit -- in the future, and that

00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:24.020
this is something that's totally self-sustaining
for them.

00:49:24.020 --> 00:49:29.410
Malka: Please join me in thanking Mike.

00:49:29.410 --> 00:49:32.640
It was very interesting, first international
topic.

00:49:32.640 --> 00:49:33.119
[applause]